UK Man Convicted Over Manga Images

Discussion in 'News' started by magigreen, Oct 20, 2014.

  1. magigreen

    magigreen Registered

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  2. Shadow Cat

    Shadow Cat HelloKittyIsMyWaifu

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    I can't be the only person who thought "Welcome to the NHK" when reading that.



    and the first line

    I cant help but question why thats relevant
     
  3. Necro

    Necro Grim User

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    Absolutely never justified. It's a ****ing cartoon, it could be gore-themed loli rape for all I care and it should still be legal. There's no victim, whats the crime?

    It's a ridiculous and dangerous conviction. By punishing someone for a fictionalised version of something, where the hell is that going to lead.
     
  4. dapprman

    dapprman Registered

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    The theory is any one owning such images is a lot more likely to commit the same crimes.
     
  5. Shadow Cat

    Shadow Cat HelloKittyIsMyWaifu

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    This is what I find quite funny.

    One moment its "Anime isn't just cartoons its much more than that"

    The next its "a ****ing cartoon"

    As for my opinion on this, well I hate anything that puts anything loli into an adult situation, so my oppinion would be heavily one sided and bia's
     
  6. Hanners

    Hanners Strawberry Sae forever

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    A theory that, as far as I'm aware, has never been backed up by any empirical evidence.
     
  7. Weirdo

    Weirdo UKA Editor in Chief
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    Same theory have that playing computer games turns you into a violent sociopath.

    This is a worrying development as it basically puts a subjective slant on the law. IE, what the prosecution and judge finds offensive. If this is going to become law, then they need to establish objective standards, otherwise this could VERY quickly turn sour. Interesting how the defendant has been used twice, as a test case for a sexual offence from an animated source. In both cases, there were no victims (other than a possible breach of the artists' copyright). Interesting that it was also mentioned that the source of the art was from a legitimate site, therefore Amazon?

    Interesting to see where this goes.

    Secondary source for the article from my twitter feed btw: http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/anime-fan-convicted-over-illegal-7958896

    Little addition and a question to the world at large. Why is money being spent by the taxpayer to protect society when there isn't a victim. The point of the criminal justice system is to protect society from those who mean it harm. I don't see how cracking one off to animated girls who, as we all know are drawn subjectively young, harms society. Yes, its weird, but really, worth spending the time of all those involved and then the criminal rehabilitation. Err no. Why waste time doing this, when those 50,000 people who were caught by the police downloading photos of real children being abused, are no longer being pursued?

    Another example of broken priorities by our over-zealous criminal justice system.
     
    #7 Weirdo, Oct 20, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2014
  8. Acteon

    Acteon Behind you...

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    I find it highly offensive that the abuse of real children in Rotherham was covered up by the local council and none of them have been hauled in front of a judge, while someone owning cartoons harming no one has seen (as others have said) the law used subjectively where there is no victim.

    If the criminal justice system, which is already a complete joke, is to retain any semblance of credibility, it has to give itself a very long, hard look.

    I also question the relevance of using the biased term "jobless anime fan".

    Oh, and on the Gazette page that Weirdo linked to, one of the promoted stories was for a "Sexy horror movie". So on one hand we have a damning story of a man who uses manga to get his jollies, and on the other the "news" site is promoting a film that makes murdering people sexy.

    Hypocrites.
     
  9. Claw

    Claw Registered

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    Hey folks!

    I caught wind of this one early yesterday, and while initially concerned I think extremely poor reporting may be to blame here.

    Hoque has a previous conviction for something (quote; Six years ago he was prosecuted for having Tomb Raider-style computer-generated pictures of fictional children.), the details of which I havent been able to find, and the article mentions that he was withholding usernames. Usernames to what exactly? And how did the police get him on their radar in the first place?

    I see two possibilities here;

    1) The extremely long case (June 13, 2012) fell through and the police decided to pursue whatever minor charge they could cobble together to make it look like it had been worth their time. In this case, they werent really pursuing an anime fan they were pinning whatever they could on a guy they had nothing else against.

    2) It wasnt anime, but far more realistic CGI style computer generations which his defence attempted to argue was anime because of the other non-illegal images found on his computer. I believe his previous conviction vague as those details are sounds like it supports this idea. In this case, it has nothing to do with anime and the defence simply wanted press coverage ahead of an appeal. Still a little worrying though.

    Theres no real reason to think this is some grand injustice without more data; simply that the Gazette (which broke the story) is a terrible paper, and that the Mirror (which copied the story near word for word) are just hacks and we knew that.
     
  10. megalomaniac

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    The point of the modern criminal justice system is control, not justice.
     
  11. latro

    latro Anime Editor
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    Perhaps to start with but its more the fact that the case sets a dangerous precedent rather than the specific ins and out of the case in question that's causing the issue.
     
  12. Claw

    Claw Registered

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    I dont think thats likely. However you look at it, this was a disaster for the prosecution. Two years of work for such a tiny sentence? It's not worth their time, is what other people will be thinking.

    This is bad press because anime has been attached to it, but nothing more.
     
  13. Acteon

    Acteon Behind you...

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    All very true - the reporting is atrocious I think we can all agree. The conviction aside, the harm this does to people who enjoy a foreign art form is significant. I hate to think of the reaction of any parent reading that story when they find out their child likes anime or manga. It also paints a very negative picture of those of us who are immersed in the medium.

    It would have been prudent for either paper to actually approach a site like ours, or any of the main distributors, for comment in the service of balance.

    You're quite right though, we don't know all the facts, but irresponsible journalism like this damages our community and they really ought to be taken to task for it.
     
  14. Weirdo

    Weirdo UKA Editor in Chief
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    More information would be nice. Didn't half rile me up though >_>;;
     
  15. CrimsonScholar

    CrimsonScholar Uka-no-Mitama-no-kami

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    Iv thankfully become numb to the constant barrage of negativity the medium seems to attract.

    There seems to be a story almost every month like clockwork, its either violence related this or hentai porn that. I cant even be bothered to read the full story sometimes because of the blatant errors and misconceptions they try to get across to the majority.
     
  16. S.D. Hester

    S.D. Hester Registered

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    If the guy is guilty, fair enough, but this is looking like another 'Find something to cover up Governmental ineptitude' deal. They're still sting from the Rochdale business, and of course there's an Election on the brew so somone has to be painted as the 'Bad Guy'.

    The Mirror is a Tabloid 'Red Top' and that should tell you all you need to know.
     
  17. Necro

    Necro Grim User

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    To me it's nothing to do with the anime slant. The fact somebody has been convicted over what is little more than subjectively offensive art is the concern, anime styled or not.

    Bit off topic but the fact people are legally obligated to hand over encryption keys and such, guilty or not, annoys me. It's like building up your own case against you.
     
  18. megalomaniac

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    Got to love the thought police.....

    One presumes Nabokov's Lolita is now illegal here. Also Shakespeare's Romeo & Juliet, given Juliet was 13. I assume everyone who's ever read Shakespeare, watched the play, seen the movies or had unclean thoughts about anyone depicting Juliet is being rounded up and packed off to the Gulags as we speak?
    Indeed, not being forced to incriminate yourself is a pretty basic thing in most legal systems...
     
  19. Claw

    Claw Registered

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    While I agree with you, our particular fandom is relatively new to the country. If you look far enough back you see that pretty much every form of entertainment has been treated this way at first; various types of music (rock will make you worship the devil!), entire TV channels (Channel 4 was basically Sodom when it started according to the papers), movies (no one bats at eye an teen slashers anymore), and even gaming - a vast mainstream industry - still gets it in the neck for "promoting violence".

    Everyone needs something to complain about I guess.

    To spare my sanity, I like to see this as a rite of passage for anime/manga on the road to becoming more recognised.

    You are absolutely correct (*see important note below), but it's not new either. "Offensive" artwork is often being removed from galleries (I recall some Japanese lady had something removed in London a couple of years back), and then usually sheepishly returned after they get cuffed around the ear for it by someone more senior. The judge's comments were worrying, but I don't think we can necessarily point fingers at the police here - it is their job to respond to what could be a crime without personal prejudice.

    *The important note is that we have no idea what those images were. It could have been overdraws or redraws of actual child porn for all we know, or so realistic and sexual that it would have been deemed utterly offensive to everyone. It's a tough one, but without actually seeing the stuff I don't think I could defend or condemn it blindly.
     
  20. Chrono

    Chrono Legendary Devil Knight

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    Its an interesting one, considering things like game of thrones depicts some pretty intense stuff, yet that is fine because it is literature. Why is one good and another bad. I mean, how old is danerys in the first book?
     

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